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 JJM (Admin)
Name : John Mittler
Member since : 13 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 255
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 09:29
Until now, the competition and results calendar of our website has included only four possible abbreviations for the playing system:
B = beton
E = eternite
F = felt
O = open system
Today I added more abbreviations. Now the abbreviation for playing system (in the calendar or results) can be:
A = adventure golf
B = beton
E = eternite
F = felt
I = Cobigolf
O = other (open system)
P = Putt-Putt
S = Sterngolf
Z = crazy golf
("C" is not used as the abbreviation of any system, because of possible confusion between Concrete, Crazy golf and Cobigolf.)
American competitions have been updated with the correct new abbreviations. British competitions not yet, because I am not sure which courses are Crazy golf and which are Adventure golf.
We will see what opinions and debates will arise about this new abbreviation policy.
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 doctork (User)
Name : Keith Kellard
Member since : 09 Feb 2009
Number of posts : 9
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 09:56
What is the definition of crazy golf? Does it refer to the course itself or how the sport is played on it?
Crazy golf = more than one ball in play.
I don't see how you can accurately distinguish adventure golf from crazy golf, and have a definitive method for identifying one over the other. eg. what is Hastings seafront crazy golf, for those that know it? - Crazy (because it's in the name, and it has a windmill) or adventure, or even open system?
Have you a guideline as to what constitutes what?
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doctork (User)
Name : Keith Kellard
Member since : 09 Feb 2009
Number of posts : 9
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 09:57
That said, in essence it is a good idea to try to more accurately identify those events/courses currently classed as Open System
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 Hans (Admin)
Name : Hans Bergström
Member since : 10 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 69
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 10:01
I am missing artificial grass courses without walls like in Askim. That is the kind of MOS courses build by City Golf all over Europe right now.
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JJM (Admin)
Name : John Mittler
Member since : 13 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 255
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 11:35
I didn't know that "crazy golf" has been (more or less officially) defined as multi-ball minigolf. This certainly is not the only or even main meaning of the term. Which is a good reason to find some other term for multi-ball minigolf, to avoid misunderstandings.
The terms, definitions and abbreviations are open to discussion. Of essential interest are such playing systems, on which we can expect to see official minigolf tournaments (anywhere in the world), which could be mentioned in our news, calendar or results service. And which are so unique that we (or the players or tournament organizers) generally want to recognize this specific playing system with its own unique term, separating it from all other playing systems.
The terms "adventure golf" and "crazy golf" are debatable in all ways, including the names, definitions, and whether we need more terms than these two. This is how I was planning to define the two concepts:
- "Adventure golf" = Any minigolf course anywhere in the world, which is designed to have a natural (more or less golf-like) style, mostly of natural materials, without symmetric or regular shapes, and without any themed fantasy obstacles.
- "Crazy golf" (or "fantasy golf?") = Any minigolf course anywhere in the world, which has themed fantasy obstacles of any style (such as windmills etc.), excluding official standardized beton, eternite and felt courses.
This leaves a question, what would be the category of a course with symmetric shapes (fails to meet my definition of "adventure golf") but without any fantasy obstacles (fails to meet my definition of "crazy golf")? Brits might call it "minigolf" I guess. It could be included in "crazy golf" or then "other (open system)".
Adventure golf courses come in endless variations of materials, sizes and styles. I don't see any practical need to separate artificial grass from felt carpet, or courses without borders from courses with garden pole walls, brick walls or fake cliff walls. These differences are not essential for the players -- what is essential for them is the question, what kind of rules and balls will be used in the competition.
Should the term "playing system" indicate the type of course only, or shoud it also indicate the rules? For example, "unlimited balls", "golf ball rule" and "multi-ball crazy golf" would all be classified as "adventure golf", if played on a course designed in golf-like style, and the definition refers to the type of course only.
It might be useful to define "adventure golf with golf ball only" as its own playing system, separate from adventure golf with special balls. Possible even as simply as this:
- "adventure golf" = minigolf on golf-style courses, with a golf ball only
- "crazy golf" (or "fantasy golf etc.") = minigolf on freely designed courses, with one or more special minigolf balls
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Hans (Admin)
Name : Hans Bergström
Member since : 10 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 69
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 13:19
I definitively think that the courses that are made to be similar to golf greens are something else that Adventure Golf in general. This is more putting of 18 courses than adventure golf. Maybe "Putting course" or something similar could be used.
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JJM (Admin)
Name : John Mittler
Member since : 13 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 255
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 13:54
Google Image searches with "putting course" gave quite much the same results as a search with "adventure golf".
http://www.golffusion.com/sah-hah-lee/images/pool/sah-hah-lee/Putting_Course_1_full.jpg
http://www.haven.com/Images/de_adventureGolf_hl.jpg
http://www.hsbresort.com/photogallery/galleries/marriotthotel/1_Whitewater%20Putting%20Course%20and%20Marriott%20Hotel.jpg
http://www.southwestgreens.com/images/putting-course-design.jpg
http://www.somersetcountyparks.org/activities/images/putt_course.jpg
http://www.thegraphicweekly.com/assets/images/aug0207/features/Bestvaluegolf.jpg
http://www.topgolf.co.uk/Images/Watford%20Pics/Adventure%20Golf%20002.jpg
http://www.art-techgolf.com/images/courses/photo_5.jpg
Minigolf in golf style, with a golf ball, is a distinctive game, which appeals to many players in the world (as we see in our vote too). I understand that all courses listed in the photos, and randomly named as "putting course" or "adventure golf" feel quite essentially the same game, for the players whose favourite game is golf-style minigolf.
Inventing a definition, which separates the courses in these sample photos into two categories, seems a bit artificial and unnecessary to me. This "putting course" is a good example: it is essentially a set of golf putting greens, but with brick walls included, to save people from the trouble of the ball rolling far away from the playing area. Walls are used in adventure golf to serve this practical purpose, not because the course designer wants to go away from 100% golf course style.
http://www.southwestgreens.com/images/putting-course-design.jpg
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JJM (Admin)
Name : John Mittler
Member since : 13 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 255
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 17:02
These definitions are quite clear:
P = Putt-Putt
S = Sterngolf
I (or C) = Cobigolf
"F" = standard felt (possibly "f" = non-standard felt, with similar playability)
"E" = standard eternite (possibly "e" = non-standard eternite, with similar playability)
"B" = Bongni standard beton (possibly "b" = non-standard beton, with similar playability, like Sochi)
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What is left after these definitions (in active competition minigolf) are various freely designed minigolf courses with a soft carpet:
- golf-style courses with non-symmetric design
- symmetric courses
which can be:
- themed with fantasy obstacles
- unthemed
and can be played with:
- golf ball only
- one or more special balls
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doctork (User)
Name : Keith Kellard
Member since : 09 Feb 2009
Number of posts : 9
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 22:32
And I guess this is the reason why WMF opted for MOS as a generic term - to avoid the need for multi classifications.
Yes, maybe Putt-Putt/Sterngolf/Cobigolf are standard, and you could have a category for each of these. In UK, we have "Arnold Palmer Putting Courses" which are our crazy golf courses - mention a course is an Arnold Palmer to any UK player, and they'll know exactly what you mean.
Where there are distinct varieties of MOS - such as the pure luck crazy/arti-grass putting &c. maybe they can be grouped together; but I'm not sure that it would be possible to establish definative categories without having the necessity for an "Other". And that just renders the whole exercise a waste in my mind - ie. "if I can't class it as this or that, I'll just say other".
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JJM (Admin)
Name : John Mittler
Member since : 13 Nov 2008
Number of posts : 255
Status : Offline | Posted : 26 May 2009 at 22:41
Yep, I repeat what I said earlier:
"Of essential interest are such playing systems, on which we can expect to see official minigolf tournaments (anywhere in the world), which could be mentioned in our news, calendar or results service. And which are so unique that we (or the players or tournament organizers) generally want to recognize this specific playing system with its own unique term, separating it from all other playing systems."
I have no idea what Cobigolf is. I have some vague idea of what Sterngolf is. Yet I know that a clear definition for these systems exists somewhere, so I can refer to them with their own names, no matter how rare they may be.
Adventure golf needs to be defined in some way, because it is one of the four favourite playing systems in competitive minigolf world, but nobody seems to have a clear definition for it.
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Fetschl
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